BOYCOTT ARROWHEAD & OTHER NESTLE BOTTLED H20
The Swiss, those endearing bastards, have done it again. Once we boycotted them because they sacrificed the lives of babies to corporate profits, pushing powdered milk on the unsuspecting poor nations, whose children died in droves because powdered milk's not good for infants. Now they are vacuuming water out of Northern California at the planned rate of a HALF a BILLION GALLONS of WATER per YEAR from the rural rubes up in McCloud who think that's a GREAT DEAL at $45K. Forty-five Grand! These guys need an R-WE-STUPID? bumpersticker! This article is a good summary of the problem, and has a list of Bottled Waters to boycott, but please just boycott anything made by Nestle, not just from Arrowhead Water to Swiss Miss chocolate. Here's the list of EVIL BOTTLED WATERS:
Arrowhead
Calistoga
Deer Park
Great Bear
Ice Mountain
Ozarka
Poland Spring
Zephyr Hills
Of course you're not stupid, and no one said you were. You just have control over a hell of a lot more water than you know how to put to good use. Good luck getting a better deal from the Swiss.
;) Chas
Cost of water. Own your own business? Need an economics lesson? Nestle sells to distributors, distributors (sometimes more than) mark up the cost 300% and sell to stores, stores then mark up the cost 300% and sell to consumers. That $1.00-$2.00 you spent on water doesn't go to Nestle. It pays the grocery clerk, the stocking clerk and the cleaning guys salary, plus lines the wallet of the store's owner, along with paying the warehouse guys salary, the delivery driver and oh yes, lines the distributor owner's wallet. Nestle? They may have charged 15 CENTS for that bottle... IF THAT. I know I can buy a case at a large warehouse and pay less than 20 CENTS per bottle, now you know that warehouse marked up the cost, what did Nestle make off that bottle??
McCloud. Perhaps some of the opponents of Nestle will appreciate hearing one of their supporters claim McCloud is full of rusting pickup trucks next to unpainted buildings and where we sell no natural food in any stores. Oh the owner of the market will LOVE that... as will the owner of the cafe that sells lunch and coffee... all who are against Nestle...
The Contract. You forgot to mention the text of the contract, in Section 9.1 regarding CEQA Compliance. It so reads, and I quote, “District and Purchaser acknowledge and agree that the obligations of the parties under this agreement are conditioned on district and purchaser completing...proceedings under CEQA in connection with the project.” It continues by saying, again I quote, “Neither party shall be bound hereby unless and UNTIL Districts compliance with CEQA is completed and there is no possibility of a challange pursuant to CEQA.”
CEQA is much more than a matter of “public involvement”. It is were numerous agencies gather and evaulate information on the possible effects of a project. This agreement signed by MSCD is contingent on a FULL CEQA review, there have been numerous meetings open to the public regarding the service districts intention to sell our spring water and I recall many dollars spent in legal advice, consultations and advisability reviews prior to the signing of any contract.
I would like people to think about the AMOUNT of water we have in northern california. It is mid January, already all the lakes are nearing capacity, the rivers are flowing and there is flooding down hill. We haven't even had spring melt yet and there is bound to be more snow/rain before this occurs! Our water supply is strong and some of the best around. When the lumber mill was in operation, they used 40% of the town's water. What does that compute to? About 1400 acre feet a year. Just shy of what Nestle has option to, if CEQA passes with no mitigation in this area, and when the mill was running, we didn't notice ANY drop in our water tables, streams, rivers or lakes... which is what the opponents claim will happen.
But that's right, most of those opponents just moved here from the city, make the prices of our homes soar, don't work or spend any money in this town, simply use it as a vacation get away, and wouldn't know what McCloud was like 5 years ago, much less 10-20 or 30 years ago. They want McCloud to stay the quaint quiet little town where they can escape to. Or start their own little “cottage industry” where they will make even more money to line their wallets while those who LIVE here struggle to stay here.
The only statement by “McCloud Resident” that I disagree with is that the 1400-acre feet allocated to the mill was 40% of the available water. It is actually 15%. Incidentally, engineering studies have certified that the recent replacement of the water lines from the springs and throughout the town have captured more leakage than the volume that Nestle has contracted for. This group of rubes clearly missed the fact that a 16” diameter soaker hose was unquestionably a better use of some of the best water on earth rather than wasting it on creating jobs in a county whose unemployment rate ranges from 10-15%. Oh, and I still haven’t figured out how water from McCloud is better re-introduced to the aquifer when it is consumed in L.A. via the California Aqueduct, rather than consumed out of Arrowhead bottles. The potential reduction in volume tributary to the McCloud River at full usage by Nestle would be less than 3/100 of one percent. Discarding the fact that this water has been utilized by other industry for almost 100 years, and discounting the volume saved by the water line replacement, worrying about this reduction would be the equivalent of agonizing over a $13 donation out of a $50,000 income.
It seems to me that most of the local opposition to this project falls into two camps. Group #1 has been spellbound by the hysteria that you are helping to perpetuate here, based on the loathing of a company that made some serious mistakes 30 years ago. They have either failed to research the facts associated with the history of the town, the mill site and the water, or prefer to ignore them as a result of their bias against Nestle. Group #2 has an economic agenda, prefering to see the proposed plant site developed into high-end home sites that they, coincidentally, would be happy to develop. This group is happily utilizing the first group to further their agenda.
:) Chas
There is nothing anti-ethnic about the characterizations of the Swiss. Facts are facts. They hid Nazi gold. They still guard the Pope. Bank secrecy for international thieves still often trumps the claims of their victims. I like the Swiss. I think it's a lovely country, and don't object to them having the largest per capita standing army in the world. They are, however, engaged in a colonialist game, and we Americans are the natives in this Mcloud water imbroglio.
The potshots at non-locals who ”interfere in their vacation home communities“ are so familiar as to sound cliched. That crap is dished up by anti-environmentalist boosterist Chamber of Commerce types all up and down the northwest. If you own property or live in a town, you have a voice in local government, and it is xenophobia (stranger-hatred) to say that ”come-latelies“ should have no voice.
Furthermore, if you want explanations for who should leave and who should stay in a community, I'll give you some Milton Friedman for your consumption. The people who can afford to live in Mcloud should live there. If it turns into a spa town where rich Republican wives get their hair done, or a New Age town where celebrity liberals go to get away from Aspen, economic realities dictate that the land go to those who can cut the financial nut.
If you think we should fund social welfare and full employment in Mcloud at the cost of giving away our water to a foreign nation, so they can sell it back to us at inflated rates, that's socialism, and stupid socialism at that. Water is a public resource, and if Mcloud has more than it needs for its own immediate purposes, that probably means that SF, LA, and the Central Valley might be interested in tapping that resource. Since Mcloud did nothing to get it, and doesn't have any idea how to value it, Mcloud should not have control over it.
Since Mcloud does have control over the water, it is imperative that the town seize control of the leadership of the Mcloud Water District at the ballot box and rein in the ”jobs-at-any-cost" boosters, so somebody with some cojones can cut a deal with Nestle, or come up with another plan to exploit the water in a savvy, truly beneficial way for the community. Giving away a resource for little or nothing, and promising to keep giving it away for A HUNDRED YEARS is never a good idea, because you have NO IDEA what that water will be worth in even five or ten years, much less a hundred.
:) Chas
It is a shame that your slander may be taken by some as fact....strange how being misinformed and then passing that along can cause harm to people. Your article serves to perpetuate the misinformation spewed by the McCloud Watershed Council. Talk about hidden agenda's! The lack of integrity found in some members of this group is shameful. Some of these people would fit into your term of “rubes” and could easily sport your bumper sticker on their vehicles. Did I mention that most of the members of this group are recent arrivals or only live in the town part-time?
I don't have a clue what happened to your friend but there are many Hispanics living in, being an active part of and enjoying this town. Your inuendo that it was his race that made him feel that the town was “nasty and brutish” was offensive. Maybe your friend and his attitude was the problem not the town or his race.
Why is Nestle coming into our town such a hot topic? Our water deal is much better than the one Mt. Shasta has...oh wait the town of Mt. Shasta didn't get a deal on their water and so get none of the monetary benefits. By the way, where were these water crusaders when the water bottling plants were approved in Weed, Mt. Shasta and Dunsmuir? Why not the big to-do over Dunsmuirs approval of their second bottling facility? Couldn't be that hidden agenda could it?
Do your homework, study the contract yourself and maybe you will find that it is you who have been the dupe, maybe that bumper sticker should be on your vehicle as well.
Do your homework, study the contract yourself and maybe you will find that it is you who have been the dupe, maybe that bumper sticker should be on your vehicle as well.
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Times change, and issues become hot buttons. Global warming's on everyone's mind, and there's nothing like the disparity between the street value of a half-billion gallons of water and the microscopic value of Nestle's handful of beads to give those excluded from the negotiations all the ammo they need to attack the results.
Pride in community, and I doubt not that Mcloud has it — is typically exploited to develop boosterist sentiment to support corporate exploitation. The reality of seeing your town run out of steam is very depressing. Mcloud probably shipped hundreds of millions of board feet of lumber, enough to build houses and McDonalds' from there to LA and more, but where's the mansions in Mcloud? That's the problem — just like the town of Hilt — got exploited by the timber barons and had nothing left when they pulled out. Now the water monopolists are going to be your friends.
If you could get advice from Hunter Thompson, he'd tell you to hire some damn fancy lawyers anytime a huge corporation comes calling with a ”take it or leave it" deal. Cut those lawyers in for a share of the increase between what's on the table now and what they can deliver. Nestle could better their offer a hundred-fold, and still make out like bandits. Of course, they wouldn't want anyone to know they'd been jacked up to a higher price — that would ruin negotiations elsewhere. No worries — settle with a confidentiality agreement. While you're at it, why don't you get those job guarantees nailed down, a free-hot-chocolate deal for the kids at the school, and maybe a foreign exchange program, so some Mcloud kids can go snowboarding in the Alps? It's all there if you just NEGOTIATE. You have the power. How do I know? Because they came to you. The one who comes to the battle is weak, says Sun Tzu. But the Swiss convinced Mcloud that it was weak. That false perception needs to change. Then people in Mcloud can also be rich, like the Swiss.
As I stated before, for most of the opposition, the issue has nothing to do with the stated platform. The deal, which undeniably could have been more favorable to the community, was the best one offered in over ten years of negotiations with a variety of companies. The environmental impacts (in all senses of the definition), are far less than what the succession of lumber companies over the last hundred years have imposed on the community. The consummation of the contract has always been dependant on passing CEQA, and while that may seem backwards to some, it would be naïve in the extreme for a manufacturer to invest millions of dollars into getting CEQA approval without knowing what they were going to pay for the resource at the successful conclusion of the process. The problem, for these people, is that the deal was made with Nestle. Nestle’s history is repugnant to this group, and they are appalled at the association. Interestingly, many of these people are driving Japanese or German vehicles and wearing clothes made in China. Examining any of these countries’s history over the period of time that your castigation of the Swiss covers leads me to believe that perhaps these feelings are not being distributed evenly.
“It is imperative that the town seize control of the leadership of the Mcloud Water District at the ballot box and rein in the ”jobs-at-any-cost“ boosters, so somebody with some cojones can cut a deal with Nestle, or come up with another plan to exploit the water in a savvy, truly beneficial way for the community. Giving away a resource for little or nothing, and promising to keep giving it away for A HUNDRED YEARS is never a good idea, because you have NO IDEA what that water will be worth in even five or ten years, much less a hundred.”
Seems you not only did NOT take economics, but you missed US Govt as well. We (and by “we” I mean the TRUE RESIDENTS OF MCCLOUD as defined by someone who actually lives full time in town and who is allowed to vote in “town issues”) ... We vote in representatives every 2 years. As mentioned by McCloudy, there have been studies, negotiations and discussions at OPEN TO THE PUBLIC meetings since 1993 (That equates to the past 12 years) regarding the selling/bottling of McCloud water. We have had more than enough opportunities to vote in those we feel decide things in the “best interest of McCloud”.
You sound like an intelligent person. Do you know what happens when someone with “cajones” demands too much for a readily available and most often free resource? Doesn't take a genius to figure this one out... All you have to really do is look at neighboring communities. Mt Shasta demanded too much from Dannon and what did Dannon do? Bought some land with a spring on it and pipe water into their facility. Mt Shasta doesn't benefit finacially at all.
Do you realize that Nestle could have done exactly the same thing? They know our water is some of the best around. Instead of negotiating with any of the numerous private land owners(timber industries) that surround the the proposed facility (which by the way is what Crystal Geyser does in Weed, CA) they spoke with our service district board. They negotiated and reached a contract contingent on full CEQA compliance.
Their interest helped prompt updating the pipes that service our town, helped update our water storage facility. Their interest will potentially provide this town's governing body with funding that is not limited to just water. For every job Nestle may create, 1-3 others could also be created. More restaurants, more gas stations, more stores will be needed.
Do you understand that water is free? The water bottling industry is based on simple supply and demand. If you don't buy the water....
McCloud is exploiting the water... we are selling it for financial gain. If we pushed for too much money, Nestle would still purchase the old mill site, still build thier facility, still bring jobs to the community. However McCloud would not benefit finaicially as they would just do what other neighboring plants have done, bypass the local community water delivery system and pump from thier own spring.
I would like to add, that Nestle is the ONLY water bottler in the county that has voluntarily undertaken the task of completing a full CEQA/EIR. Wait... not voluntarily... the contract with MCSD demands it, is contingent upon it.
Dannon, and most recently, the new Mott Rd Plant, simply did a negative declaration. The simple truth is that those communities have absolutely no control over the water brought into the plant, make no money from the water... but nevertheless all the agencies involved felt that the plants would not harm the environment and each were given the go ahead.
I think McCloud should hold it's head high, we ARE MAKING MONEY on this deal, we DO MAINTAIN CONTROL of all water righs, all springs, all facilities up to the proposed plant, in addition we have control during proven drought situations. Can the other communities claim this?
I'm going to laugh... and cry... if this contract is turned over and the appeal is lost. Due to the stupidity, the greed and the hidden agendas of a few, many will lose. Yet Nestle will still build their plant...
For a project of the size Nestle is pursuing, a pre-project CEQA would still be required, regardless of the private siting.
Wrong. They didn't negotiate with private landowners because timber companies have their own lawyers, and would not have cut such a sweetheart deal. They negotiated a backroom contract with municipal authorities who apparently did not hire legal counsel, and presented a ”take it or leave it“ agreement that subordinates the CEQA compliance to its own plans to proceed prior to approval. To say that the effectiveness of the contract is conditioned on CEQA compliance is simply false. Performance of whatever CEQA compliance is forced upon Nestle is all that they are committed to, and their current litigious approach to Judge Kosel's ruling shows that they have no intention to perform one act of compliance more than they are forced to via litigation. Currently the project is going forward, and it has no CEQA approval. Nestle speak with forked tongue, which is why you hire San Francisco lawyers with deep Republican donation connections, and run up the cost of litigation with meritless appeals. If Nestle were ready to do the CEQA process, all they need to do is acquiesce in the Superior Court judgment and get busy with the compliance. But nooooooo. They want it all their way.
The reason to vote out your elected representatives is because they've hidden their mistakes and now seek to justify them. They have allied themselves with the adverse party in a contractual dispute, and are hellbound that they will accomplish Nestle's purposes in Northern California. This doesn't make them bad people, not at all, just victims of a conflict of interest that probably snuch up on them, and now they don't even realize they've switched sides and no longer represent their community. That's how conflicts of interest work, and why SUNSHINE is the remedy. Let all public business be conducted in the open, and this back-assward way of doing things will come to an end.
Like my Aunt Pearl, the schoolteacher always said to me: ”If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you ever find the time to do it over?“
On a more personal level, I admire the people of Mcloud for having this dispute. Many towns would just roll over and let Nestle take their water. You folks are fighting, and as a result, Americans may get to exploit American water, and not just as sellers of raw material, the lowest level of the colonialist food chain (after slavery).
Thanks for the grudging compliments. I too enjoy scrapping with you folks, although I think your dire prediction that Nestle will walk from this deal if it loses the appeal is not the only option. A face-saving deal could still be put together, baised on the concept that ”We wanted to give you all our water for nothing, but that mean old Judge wouldn't let us!"
You may think Judge Kosel is just being legalistic. Not at all. He is minding the people's business just the way he swore to, making sure that CEQA is enforced in a way that gives it meaning — DON'T SIGN 100-YEAR AGREEMENTS ABOUT HALF A BILLION GALLONS OF WATER UNTIL YOUR CEQA COMPLIANCE IS COMPLETE! Now make Nestle write that on a blackboard half a billion times, once for every gallon they sought to steal, and see when they get done.
:) Chas
This seems like an excellent avenue of investigation. Anyone call Paul Newman to request an initial investment. Newman's Own Water! I can see it now. The PR benefits alone are worth more than the H20!
:) Chas
Nestle does not need the contract to get the water that they want, they never did. That contract would have ensured that at least we, the people of McCloud, would have gotten something for the water. All Nestle needs to do is go through the CEQA and take the water.
On another note Nestle had begun doing things for and donating money and items to the residents of McCloud. We were getting some benefits of having a large company in our town even before the purchase was complete.
I do agree with the “Mountain Man M” on one thing, the bickering and fighting needs to stop. It helps no one and has only caused a great deal of harm.
If it's all they need to do, why are they still appealing?
Presumably, the job benefits will still come to the town, which has been so loyal to the Nestles water lords. Since there were no guarantees of wages, benefits or any such, you will be treated no worse than you would have.
Yeah, tell that to Bill O'Reilly and Fox News. Bickering's awful.
:) Chas
I settled here in McCloud in 1988. To some in our community, that makes me a newcomer, not entitled to participate in the process of determining the future of our town. I find this attitude offensive and un-American. Everone in the American west is a newcomer.
I also find some of the authors comments about our communty offensive and obvioulsy un-informed about our communty.
He is right on the mark, however, about the Swiss multi-national that has come to town to plays us for the fools and make billions of dollars/francs off of a resource that is, technically, owned by all of the people of California (see California Water Law 101) and is probably not the Mccloud community Service Districts water to sell. This thorny leagal issue may well surface and surprise all of us in McCloud who like to think of this water as “ours”.
One interesting piece of recent hisotry has been all but overlooked in all of this controverey. The Service District Doard of Directors is taking all of the heat at the moment. Some of which is deserved and some, perhaps, is mis-directed. Yes, they are the elected officials who signed the deal, but, at the risk of being offinsive, they are not the brightest bulbs on the block in McCloud. Though full of good intentions, they were all but putty in the hands of our former Service district General Manager, who was also the undisputed architect of the deal between Nestle and MCSD. A funny thing happend. The same week that the Superiour Court ruled against Nestle and the Service District, this same General Manager submitted his letter of resignation and within 60 days, had left town. Very odd timing and behaviour for a guy who used to rave about what a great place McCloud was to live a raise a family. I think he used to call it “Gods country”. Maybe he had some second thoughts about being in the hot seat in such a controversey. Did somebody say something about Swiss bank accounts?
Reagrding the assertions by the pro Nestle faction that the opposition is all out of towners with a “hidden agenda”, I have some obsrevations and questions. First, I note with interest the recent publication of a door to door survey that show 77% opposition to the Nestle contract. That was a door to door survey and apparently many of the homes were vacant, and not polled, presumably these homes are owned by all of those second home owners from down south. This would imply that the survey represents mostly those at home, or those who would mostly qualify as “residents”. It also appears to me that the most vocal boosters of the project may well be the ones with the “hidden agenda”. they are the ones most likely to get the decent jobs that will pay a living wage. The rest of us “rubes” will end up with the $8 - $10 an hour jobs that are the industry standard. If the opponents have a “hidden agenda”, what is it? I just don't see what sort of hidden agenda could unite a buch of folks with their own lives to take on a giant Swiss corporation.
Well one thing is for certain. the political apathy that used to be so prevelant in this town is gone. This issue has truly polarized our community. We can thank Nestle (and our former General Manager) for that.
I second that emotion!
:) Chas
These are the kinds of questions for which answers can be sought in litigation, through discovery of Nestle's files, and subpoenas to Water District and Kampa for testimony and documents. Public Records Requests may also be useful. Where are Kampa's work emails for that time period? Those communications should be part of his employer's work records, thus public property and subject to citizen review under the current circumstances.
:) Chas
If I were a resident of Twain Harte I might want to be aware of the fox guarding the henhouse of whatever water source that comminty relies on. Beware of the bounty hunters in search of the blue gold of the future.
Take one vocally opposed female..isn't it conceivable that she is being paid by one of Nestle's competitors in the region? Might she have paid for her TWO houses (at least) in McCloud with money secretly deposited in some un-numbered, untraceable French bank account? And some of the local business owners who also oppose Nestle...Might they be afraid of losing their currently low-paid, non-benefit-receiving employees to a better employer? Might they be forced to improve their pay scales to approach a living wage in order to retain or find new employees? What a shame (or is it Sham?) And I don't buy the anti-corporation facade they hide behind...after all, they all drive cars made by and fueled by corporations...Oh wait, its not that its a corporation, its that its “multi-national” and not American. I guess they would prefer to have the non-existent American mill company that closed shop and moved those jobs to China rather than a “foreign” company (which, by the way, employs over 8,000 Americans in this country and over 1,000 in California) come to town and be among the highest paying and compensating employers in this part of California.
Be careful about what you “imply” McThanksalot...innnuendo and rumors can be planted both ways...
If you are so high and mighty and believe that your cause is right, just and in the public interest, then don't be afraid to confront Nestle based on truth and fact and stop hiding behind misinformation, slander and psycho-rumors...
Mcyourwelcome- I think you might want to check your “facts” about pay scales and benefits. Yours sound like they came right out of the Nestle PR handbook. Regarding your speculation that Nestle's competitors are funding the opposition and that local businesses might be afraid of losing workforce to Nestle over better wages, all I can say is is that if you believe that, you probably also belive that the contract is a great deal for McCloud.
Hey! Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn? Cheap? Helluva deal. Better hurry because they're going fast.
On the district meetings, I thought that they voted last year to only keep the minutes for a year. How could you have looked over the minutes from the past nine years to see what comments were made. That sounds like a ridiculous fabrication to me.
Your points on the contract are silly. Why shouldn't we get the best deal possible out of Nestle? Why shouldn't we make sure that they don't take advantage of us and hurt our long term water supply. I don't think they really did give up the right to drill wells and boreholes. Why do you say that? Also- while the Nestle payment to McCloud may amount to 30% of the current (is that this year, last year or the year before) budget,this percentage wil drop a lot over the next decade. How much larger is todays budget than the budget ten years ago? What will it be like in another decade? What will it be like in 50, or 100 years. It will be a paltry sum.You mention the radical environmentalists that supposedly ran the timber industry out of town. Last time I checked, the timber industry had pretty much closed up shop around here in the 70's after the last of the big trees were cut. It's not as if there are a lot of the kind of forests that we used to have around here left.
You seem mighty defensive about how poorly paid the MCSD board members are. I didn't think anyone who served on the board actually got paid. I think this is supposed to be a token payment, not an actual paycheck. I think the town would be better served by a board that didn't have members with such a chip on their shoulder about so many things. You should listen to the people who you are supposed to be representing. Relax for gosh sakes. You sound really angry. Maybe you need a vacation.
He has evidence that he has gathered from study. You are on a diatribe with your speculations about Nestle competitors. That's silly. Nestle and it's competitors have divvied up the territory and fixed prices in worldwide markets. They are collaborating, not competing.
Thank you,
Chas :)
Nestle has negotiated with a landowner for truck traffic so that the traffic would not go through our town.
“Chas's paragraph”
“Wrong. They didn't negotiate with private landowners because timber companies have their own lawyers, and would not have cut such a sweetheart deal.”
And I find it offensive the way some of you talk about Pete Kampa, and Dave Palais.Pete did a good job for our town and so has our service district board. It sounds like a lot of slander to me. I don't blame Pete for moving and getting a better job with the way some of these people treated him and his family.And he didn't run away. Get real.
Oh Yea Chas you spell McCloud wrong.
You will have to forgive my mistrust of your favorite corporation. They are already struggling under the weight of numerous other PR “anchors” from theri past history. If they viloated World Health Organization guidelines designed to prevent infant moratlity, is just is not hard to imagine that they might “knowingly and purposefully” viloate environmental requirements in McCloud.
Mr. Palais' annual salary and expenses probably substantially exceed the total wages that will be paid annually to the poor McCloud-residents who are expected to try and make it on $10/hour. That kind of arithmetic is the sort that Jack Abramoff did very well — fleecing Native American tribes of $66 Million, buying Republican congressmen with chump change. McCloud is doing no different — giving away Billions in water to which they barely have any legitimate claim, and selling the national interest down the tubes for a pittance. IF we had a real government, instead of showering Iraqi criminals like Achmed Chalabi and former puppet Allawi with Billions in American dollars, and protecting those criminals inside a ring of steel called the Green Zone, our nation would turn to a place like McCloud and construct a Water Project in the National Interest.
Instead, we have a government obsessed with looting our own treasury, while decent places like McCloud, which clearly deserve respect and need GOVERNMENT MONEY to save their communities from disappearing, go begging to a Foreign Company. What the hell ever happned to American PRIDE?
Oh ho ho ho ho, that is so funny! Nestle, the 800-Billion Pound Gorilla, that controls Republican lawyers like gangs of conscienceless henchmen, is going to become a good corporate citizen because they can't deal with ”bad press.“ The ONLY bad press they've gotten is from the Ashland Free Press. Nestle can and will buy all the silence and complicity they need.
As Balthasar Gracian, the medieval Jesuit philosopher said, ”Never depend on past actions to secure future assistance.“ In other words, get a lock on their family jewels, then you'll have a chance.
BTW, Granny, I agree that our poster here ”knows way too much." He is McNestle, indeed.
:) Chas
And this one is for you Chas. Where do you get your info? Do you live here in McCloud and do you go to our MCSD meetings??? Have you read the contract?
Have you sat down and talk with Mr.Palais? Have you talked to any of our MCSD board? You seem pretty inteligent and you seem to know what is best for our town. There are residents here who are 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation mcCloudites and a good majority of these people are for a corporation. They grew up and lived corporation formerly known as mother McCloud. McCloud was built by corporation. Corporations are the only business's anymore who can afford benefits and insurance these days. It is real hard for these mom and pop business's to even pay workmans comp.
We are often looking for new employees and we advertize in the MS Herald. If you are hardworking, very reliable, lterate and have a valid CA drivers licence then read the paper and bring in an application. If you fit the description above, you would be a welcome part of our staff. We are a locally owned Mom and Pop and a corporation. We get few qualified applicants from McCloud and when we find them we try to hire them. We offer Workers Comp, health bens and a FLEX plan for our staff.
When the tough business desicions need to get made, multinational megacorps like Nestle are only concerned about increasing thier profits to serve shareholders in London, New York and Singapore. In the case of Nestle, it's a fact - proven by the number of current lawsuits and formal complaints against them for violating the law in small communities throughout the country. This isn't about a “mistake” that happened 25 years ago.
Mother McCloud may have been great for us, as my mom and grandparents experienced her, but Champion International literally cut and ran, leaving the people of McCloud with nothing to show for years of hard work. Ask the oldtime fallers who lived through the difference.
Why would we want to make our kids repeat the experience? In the current global economy, the only way to create security is to build a strong, diverse, locally-owned business community that is managed by people who live here and think locally. Whether it is water bottling or timber management, we should do whatever we can to put people who care about McCloud in charge of our resources. Ask Dave Palais where he plans to live in five years, ten years, twenty years. Where is he living right now?
I am a fifth generation rural Northern Californian. As such, I am totally familiar with issues of water, jobs and resource extraction. But the most pressing issue facing every rural community in this nation is maintaining local control and maintaining a true sense of community in this changing world. The Nestle project is stealing both these things from our town right now...as we chat on the computer.
As for me being “McNestle”, it never ceases to amaze me how you and the opponents to the project always find some paranoid reason to claim that an informed citizen who supports this project is “in Nestle's pocket”. If I am, then its not so silly to think the opponents are in the pockets of the competitors to Nestle...or maybe I have a relative who works as a consultant in southern CA where EIRs are common and they have worked on numerous EIRs. Maybe I asked her to explain the EIR process to me and get her opinions about how we might expect the EIR process to unfold...or maybe I spent time disucssing it with our County Planning Department. Why is it so difficult for you to accept that I (and others)have spent time getting educated on the process rather than spending my time spreading fear and lies about “what might be”. But of course, because I support the project, you necessarily assume I am in the corporations pocket -which page in your radical protestor's handbook is that on Chas.?
Newcomer: I agree with with McCloudian -if you are routinely paying your employees $18/hour plus benefits,congratulation! But I find it ironic that you even have to advertise in the paper for jobs...your should have people knocking down the doors to your business if that were true just fromword of mouth (and there are a lot of big mouths in McCloud!!!). I am sure now that you have stated your typical wage, you will have lots of prospective employees...by the way - just how many do you employ at that wage? 10? 20? 30? 60 to 240?
I do whole-heartedly agree with you however about the need for diversified employment in McCloud...I simply just don't see how the Nestle project prohibits that? You will say because they have bought the biggest piece of property in town thereby limiting that diversity. If that is so, then maybe you had an idea for diversifiying that property if you had been able to buy it? If that is the case - horray for you - but to me, that seems like exactly the potential “financial gain” that Nestle is trying to determine as being the possible motivation behind the lawsuit against them...
Everyone has time to read Jesuit medieval philosophy, but they'd rather watch the Super Bowl. My Dad introduced me to this philosopher when I was young. Philosophy is ageless because the problems of mankind repeat themselves. The truth of Gracian's statement is what's important — we cannot trust corporations or people to treat us fairly based on faith or our past kind treatment of them. We must secure what we want by negotiation, agreement, and enforcement. I haven't read the contract, just Judge Kosel's ruling finding it unlawful. You don't realize, because you haven't practiced law as I have in California for nineteen years, that invalidating contracts is never done lightly, and Judge Kosel isn't a firebrand liberal eco-activist judge, if there is such a thing anywhere. The contract is a bad, sneaky trick. My rule is NEVER DEAL WITH PEOPLE WHO TRY TO CHEAT YOU. The Swiss have tried, and are trying, to cheat you. Of course you don't want to admit it, like Bush won't admit he's been unlawfully spying. Just bull it on through.
Additionally, I have been to Vevey, Switzerland, where Nestle is based, and I assure you there is no water for sale there, notwithstanding the presence of the vast Alpine snowfields. Can you imagine if WalMart wanted to bottle the waters of Lake Geneva? Haha!
Good thing you don't get bogged down in mud-slinging.
It's not financial gain the opponents find offensive — IT'S THE GARGANTUAN, EXPLOITIVE, LONG TERM, ECO-SCREWING FOR A MEASLY STRING OF BEADS!
Speaking of a string of beads, listen to this old tune by T-Bone Burnett. It's called ”Humans From Earth,“ and was on the soundtrack for ”Until The End of the World," an avant garde movie by Wim Wenders that is a little diffuse. Great soundtrack, though.
If you need an MP3 player for your machine, get it at p2pmovies.net.
:) Chas
Fantastic! I'll look for a copy of the ruling.
A united front is the last thing they are expecting.
:) Chas
Initially, the MCSD Board and Nestle Waters attempted to position themselves as a “trusted” resource, out for the best interest of the towns people. Time allowed the mcsd board and Palais (of Nestle Waters) plenty of rope and they took the “trusted” rope and gave themselves a public hanging. Even those few who really wanted to believe in miracles could see that the contract was a very one-sided deal.
Meanwhile, don't underestimate the power of the people.
They somehow noticed that the board phones Mr. Kampa regulary to keep the nestle project and district in-check.
They somehow noticed that Mr. Palais phones certain newcomers after district meetings at home to try to “win” them to the Nestle side.
They somehow heard that Palais gives away gifts or tickets to events, for the few that are “leaders” in the community (that choose to support the contract).
They somehow heard that Palais spends time at board members homes and has dinner with local business & town people to help the Swiss agenda.
They somehow guessed that Palais might be on Nestle payroll when he goes to use our non-profit Resource Center Staff to keep track of him or his appointments each Friday.
Some worry that MCRC staff is paid by state grant funding sources for public benefit. They notice they are answering calls on Palais' behalf and tracking him down for his appointments. They worry he might be putting our much needed Resource Center in jeopardy for his company's gain.
Some feel that NWNA only gave a small contribution to those agencies that support the Nestle contract.
Many notice that Palais has only a small number of people speaking in favor of the contract. Same people saying the same thing. Over and over. Yet, NWNA has hired one of the largest Public Relations firms to work on Palais' image in the little ole' town of McCloud.
Few may have noticed that your McCloudArrowhead site was purchased TWO DAYS BEFORE your contract with McCloud was ever signed...
It's amazing what some people notice.
Arrowhead
Calistoga
Deer Park
Great Bear
Ice Mountain
Ozarka
Poland Spring
Zephyr Hills
www.AshlandFreePress.com wrote:
The Great McCloud Water Caper of 2003
The Swiss Way: When Neutrality Works This Well, War Is Obsolete
Half A Billion Gallons of H2O Per Year Up For Grabs
The Nestle Waters North America website hasn’t apparently been updated since 2003. That is probably why it says nothing about the subject of this article – Nestle’s bald-faced attempt to circumvent the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) by ramming through a secret contract to buy 1600 acre-feet of water per year from a tiny community resource agency in Northern California – the McCloud Community Service District (MCSD). How much is an acre-foot? That’s one acre, one foot deep, which is a lot of water – 325,851.427 gallons. Multiply that by 1,600 and you get 521,361,600. That’s over a half-billion gallons of water each year. I bet even in McCloud a bottle of Calistoga will still cost two dollars. So, aside from the costs of pumping, bottling and transportation, Nestle, a Swiss corporation, will pull out a vast amount of nature’s finest product, drawn from the watersheds and snowmelt of countless square miles, so they can sell it back to Americans. And you thought we were smart here in the USA.
The World’s Largest Food Producer Is Thirsty
Nestle’s website says it’s the world's largest bottled water company, serving H20 under seventy-seven brands in a hundred and thirty countries world-wide. They’re so proud of selling all this water, you’d think they’d invented the stuff. Or maybe it’s just the money that makes them so comfy. Quoting from the company website:
“From 1998 to 2003, Nestlé Waters North America has seen its revenue increase from $1.2 billion to $2.6 billion, sustaining a volume share (all channels) of nearly 26.0 %. Nestlé Waters is, in turn, a division of Nestlé S.A., the largest food company in the world. Sales of total Nestlé S.A. increased one percent over the previous year to CHF 88 billion. Nestlé headquarters is located in Vevey, Switzerland.”
The Swiss: Masters At Working All Sides Against The Middle
In summer 2002 I was in Vevey, one of the loveliest stops along our boat-trip around Lake Geneva, with a very splendid view of Mont Blanc. The Swiss have scenery to kill for. We also stopped at a dungeon on the lake that had been designed with Swiss efficiency – the icy winds off Lake Geneva served to torment with cold, and the uneven stone floors gave prisoners nowhere to rest or seek shelter. Upstairs from the dungeon, a court fit for dancing parties was devoted to displays of arms. Starting as the first European mercenaries, the Swiss were loyal so long as they were paid and not asked to fight other Swiss. They still bodyguard the Pope. They invented bank secrecy, laundered Nazi gold and immense amounts of money stolen by oligarchs from the coffers of the poorest nations. The Swiss have the largest standing army per capita in the world, and produce as hard goods some of the priciest – chemicals and drugs. The Swiss are a libertarian nation if you will, where it is explicitly not their business whether you are evading taxes in another country as long as you are paying them in Switzerland. And they don’t make farmers bend over to please the tourists. One morning, we were wakened in our lovely little second floor hotel room with the lakefront view by an extremely aggressive bug-eyed crop-dusting helicopter buzzing the beachside vineyards hour after hour, spraying bio-cide. We repaired to Vevey for the day.
McCloud – Terra Incognita
Although I looked at Switzerland firsthand, I have never been to McCloud, and have driven past the McCloud exit on I-5 more times than I can count. My friend Rogelio, with whom I practiced Chinese martial arts in the late seventies, told me it had been nasty and brutish living as a short, Hispanic logger in McCloud. So I viewed McCloud, without ever seeing it, as a snowy sinkhole of poverty ensconced in useless mountain beauty. A place where pickup trucks rust next to unpainted buildings, and they probably still don’t sell a lot of natural food in the stores. Perfect for Nestle to swallow whole without any hint of indigestion.
A Little Lawsuit In Shasta County
I had occasion to revisit my view of McCloud recently when I saw a young lady at the Bloomsbury coffee shop reading a big stack of typewritten papers that she was underlining in red. She said it was the record of a public meeting about a lawsuit down in McCloud where the people had to sue to get their water back from Nestle. The court order she showed me had been signed by Judge Roger Kosel of Siskiyou County Superior Court, and it did indeed invalidate a contract for the sale of water from the people of tiny McCloud to Nestle, the multibillion-Swiss-franc colossus. The text that got my attention was this:
“The agreement commits the McCloud Community Services District to an option contract with Nestle for the purchase of up to 1600 acre feet per year of District spring water for a period of 50 years with a guaranteed right to extend the term for an additional 50 years. This option is irrevocable for a period of 5 years on the District's part The potential environmental impacts to the water supply are foreseeable and obvious... The approval of the agreement amounts to the creation of an entitlement for Nestle and commits the District to a definite course of action.”
The Superior Court concluded that because “the agreement creates an option for the purchase of … drinking water … potentially … out to 100 years … it is an abuse of discretion not to proceed with CEQA compliance prior to approval of the agreement.” What is CEQA compliance? Just a matter of public involvement. As Judge Kosel ruled, “the purpose of CEQA is to … inform governmental decision-makers and the public about the potential, significant environmental effects of proposed activities.” Therefore, it would seem obvious to all but Nestle and the MCSD, that “compliance should occur prior to the approval of the agreement.” There was no environmental study, no public hearing until Nestle and the MCSD brought the matter up at a single public meeting, and of all the questions raised by the surprised public participants, none received adequate answers. Instead, the MCSD approved the contract despite having no access to legal counsel, scientific advice, or apparently anything but the pushy Nestle lawyers to advise them.
A Mighty Sweet Deal
Why was there such a hurry to rush this contract through? Well, for the same reason rape and pillage are always done in a hurry – once caught in the act, it is more difficult to complete it. According to the McCloud Watershed Council, that formed to overturn the sweetheart deal, and apparently convinced Judge Kosel of the truth of their contentions, the contract provides for:
• A 50-year term, renewable for another 50 years
• The right to take 1,250 gallons per minute of spring water
• The right to take qualified water on an interim basis from district's springs for bulk delivery to other bottling facilities located in Northern California
• The right to construct pipelines and a loading facility
• Use of an unknown quantity of well water for production purposes
• Exclusive rights to one of the Springs
• One hundred years of exclusivity, during which time no other beverage business of any type may exist in McCloud
• Use of an undisclosed, perhaps unlimited amount of ground water
• The right to take 1600 of acre feet of spring water annually
• The right, from time to time, to request purchase water in excess of the maximum take
• The right to transport bulk water from spring sources, other than the Springs, for bottling at the bottling facility (see contract details)
• The right to choose exclusive use of either Upper or Lower Elk Springs as an exclusive source for Spring Water
• The right to require the MCSD to dispose of process waste water
• The right to require the MCSD to design, construct and install one or more ground water production wells on the Bottling Facility site for Nestle’s use as a supply for non-spring water purposes.
The benefits to Nestle in this agreement are outrageously imbalanced against the detriments to the community of McCloud. But we may also properly ask why McCloud should have control over so much water that they don’t have any use for? If the MCSD can sell over half a billion gallons a year and not miss it, why not give McCloud other vast resource tracts to sell to the Swiss, or to the Saudis for that matter? Why not sell Lake Shasta to the Sultan of Brunei. He’s really thirsty. He can ship the lake to his country in oil tankers and on the return trip, make payments in oil. The way the Swiss are pricing water, it’s already twice as expensive as gas, so we should make bank!
Of course, the anti-American lawyers who get payment in Swiss francs (stronger than the dollar for three years running now) aren’t going to give up. With the natives now rejecting the pittance in beads they were offered in exchange for this vast, unused natural resource, they will have to go the appellate courts to drag things out, cause more expense, and possible even reap a victory. CEQA is no doubt an endless problem for business interests, foreign and domestic. Perhaps the appellate judges will approve of circumventing its provisions. Perhaps an initiative can be floated to repeal it. Perhaps the endless flood of billions will bear Nestle along to success, and we will be free to buy back the resources we sell the Swiss at whatever price our poor, thirsty little mouths will compel us to pay.
Or maybe you have had enough. Maybe you thought Bolivia was the only country multinationals would roll over with their contracts and their big fat wallets. Maybe you want to help out the people of McCloud, and help pay for their one lawyer, Donald Mooney of Davis, California, to keep up the good fight. Maybe you want to vote with your pocketbook, by taking these Nestle water brands off your list forever:
Arrowhead
Calistoga
Deer Park
Great Bear
Ice Mountain
Ozarka
Poland Spring
Zephyr Hills
Maybe you don’t want to keep quiet about it, and you’d like to send an email to the CEO at Nestle’ Waters North America Inc. I thought you might, so here’s his contact information.
Kim E. Jeffrey – President and CEO
777 W. Putnam Ave.
Greenwich, CT 06830-5091
Phone: 203-531-4100
Fax: 203-863-0297
email: http://www.nestle-watersna.com/faq/submit.asp?id=1
Or email: http://www.nestleusa.com/customerService/contact_us.asp
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(C) 2005, Ashland Free Press, LLC
Misinformation
I am a resident of McCloud,Ca.A lot of your information is wrong and we are not stupid. You need to do some better research before you start saying accusations that are not true. Maybe you need a bumpersticker.Re: Misinformation
McCloud Resident wrote:
I am a resident of McCloud,Ca.A lot of your information is wrong and we are not stupid. You need to do some better research before you start saying accusations that are not true. Maybe you need a bumpersticker.
Of course you're not stupid, and no one said you were. You just have control over a hell of a lot more water than you know how to put to good use. Good luck getting a better deal from the Swiss.
;) Chas
Get the facts
Where to begin?? First, it's not $45K a year... that's just the part paid in water fees, and the part that MCSD can only use for “water related services”... funny how the other $300K+ got ommitted, and oh yeah, thats the part that can go toward any service those “stupid rural rubes” may need.Cost of water. Own your own business? Need an economics lesson? Nestle sells to distributors, distributors (sometimes more than) mark up the cost 300% and sell to stores, stores then mark up the cost 300% and sell to consumers. That $1.00-$2.00 you spent on water doesn't go to Nestle. It pays the grocery clerk, the stocking clerk and the cleaning guys salary, plus lines the wallet of the store's owner, along with paying the warehouse guys salary, the delivery driver and oh yes, lines the distributor owner's wallet. Nestle? They may have charged 15 CENTS for that bottle... IF THAT. I know I can buy a case at a large warehouse and pay less than 20 CENTS per bottle, now you know that warehouse marked up the cost, what did Nestle make off that bottle??
McCloud. Perhaps some of the opponents of Nestle will appreciate hearing one of their supporters claim McCloud is full of rusting pickup trucks next to unpainted buildings and where we sell no natural food in any stores. Oh the owner of the market will LOVE that... as will the owner of the cafe that sells lunch and coffee... all who are against Nestle...
The Contract. You forgot to mention the text of the contract, in Section 9.1 regarding CEQA Compliance. It so reads, and I quote, “District and Purchaser acknowledge and agree that the obligations of the parties under this agreement are conditioned on district and purchaser completing...proceedings under CEQA in connection with the project.” It continues by saying, again I quote, “Neither party shall be bound hereby unless and UNTIL Districts compliance with CEQA is completed and there is no possibility of a challange pursuant to CEQA.”
CEQA is much more than a matter of “public involvement”. It is were numerous agencies gather and evaulate information on the possible effects of a project. This agreement signed by MSCD is contingent on a FULL CEQA review, there have been numerous meetings open to the public regarding the service districts intention to sell our spring water and I recall many dollars spent in legal advice, consultations and advisability reviews prior to the signing of any contract.
I would like people to think about the AMOUNT of water we have in northern california. It is mid January, already all the lakes are nearing capacity, the rivers are flowing and there is flooding down hill. We haven't even had spring melt yet and there is bound to be more snow/rain before this occurs! Our water supply is strong and some of the best around. When the lumber mill was in operation, they used 40% of the town's water. What does that compute to? About 1400 acre feet a year. Just shy of what Nestle has option to, if CEQA passes with no mitigation in this area, and when the mill was running, we didn't notice ANY drop in our water tables, streams, rivers or lakes... which is what the opponents claim will happen.
But that's right, most of those opponents just moved here from the city, make the prices of our homes soar, don't work or spend any money in this town, simply use it as a vacation get away, and wouldn't know what McCloud was like 5 years ago, much less 10-20 or 30 years ago. They want McCloud to stay the quaint quiet little town where they can escape to. Or start their own little “cottage industry” where they will make even more money to line their wallets while those who LIVE here struggle to stay here.
A Few More Facts
It is interesting to me that the great liberal movement can demean and vilify people as long as they are white and/or conservative. Substitute any non-white ethnic group in the rants about the Swiss or the McCloud residents, and these self-righteous folks would have their ACLU cards revoked. Also, the inferences in both the article and the blogger’s comments that McCloud lacks the knowledge and sophistication necessary to “put the water to good use” are pretty funny. Who should be the steward of this resource if the residents are too naïve and the government is untrustworthy (witness the number of links on both sites attacking the government)? Obviously this governing body should be made up out of people who have never been to the area, haven’t bothered to find out the facts, and are fueled on sanctimonious indignation. After all, it worked so well with the timber industry.The only statement by “McCloud Resident” that I disagree with is that the 1400-acre feet allocated to the mill was 40% of the available water. It is actually 15%. Incidentally, engineering studies have certified that the recent replacement of the water lines from the springs and throughout the town have captured more leakage than the volume that Nestle has contracted for. This group of rubes clearly missed the fact that a 16” diameter soaker hose was unquestionably a better use of some of the best water on earth rather than wasting it on creating jobs in a county whose unemployment rate ranges from 10-15%. Oh, and I still haven’t figured out how water from McCloud is better re-introduced to the aquifer when it is consumed in L.A. via the California Aqueduct, rather than consumed out of Arrowhead bottles. The potential reduction in volume tributary to the McCloud River at full usage by Nestle would be less than 3/100 of one percent. Discarding the fact that this water has been utilized by other industry for almost 100 years, and discounting the volume saved by the water line replacement, worrying about this reduction would be the equivalent of agonizing over a $13 donation out of a $50,000 income.
It seems to me that most of the local opposition to this project falls into two camps. Group #1 has been spellbound by the hysteria that you are helping to perpetuate here, based on the loathing of a company that made some serious mistakes 30 years ago. They have either failed to research the facts associated with the history of the town, the mill site and the water, or prefer to ignore them as a result of their bias against Nestle. Group #2 has an economic agenda, prefering to see the proposed plant site developed into high-end home sites that they, coincidentally, would be happy to develop. This group is happily utilizing the first group to further their agenda.
: BOYCOTT ARROWHEAD & OTHER NESTLE BOTTLED H20
All of these arguments would sound so much better if they had been presented in compliance with the California Environmental Quality Act, with an opportunity for other involved persons, communities, and agencies to be involved. The problem with making deals in secret is that everyone suspects your after-the-fact claims that it's a great deal. After all, if it were such a great deal, why cook it up in secret, and foist it on the citizens as a fait accompli? After the backroom character of the deal is exposed, it is natural that those left out of the process cry foul, and impugn the motives of the participants.:) Chas
Re: A Few More Facts
[quote="McCloudy“]It is interesting to me that the great liberal movement can demean and vilify people as long as they are white and/or conservative.[/quote]There is nothing anti-ethnic about the characterizations of the Swiss. Facts are facts. They hid Nazi gold. They still guard the Pope. Bank secrecy for international thieves still often trumps the claims of their victims. I like the Swiss. I think it's a lovely country, and don't object to them having the largest per capita standing army in the world. They are, however, engaged in a colonialist game, and we Americans are the natives in this Mcloud water imbroglio.
The potshots at non-locals who ”interfere in their vacation home communities“ are so familiar as to sound cliched. That crap is dished up by anti-environmentalist boosterist Chamber of Commerce types all up and down the northwest. If you own property or live in a town, you have a voice in local government, and it is xenophobia (stranger-hatred) to say that ”come-latelies“ should have no voice.
Furthermore, if you want explanations for who should leave and who should stay in a community, I'll give you some Milton Friedman for your consumption. The people who can afford to live in Mcloud should live there. If it turns into a spa town where rich Republican wives get their hair done, or a New Age town where celebrity liberals go to get away from Aspen, economic realities dictate that the land go to those who can cut the financial nut.
If you think we should fund social welfare and full employment in Mcloud at the cost of giving away our water to a foreign nation, so they can sell it back to us at inflated rates, that's socialism, and stupid socialism at that. Water is a public resource, and if Mcloud has more than it needs for its own immediate purposes, that probably means that SF, LA, and the Central Valley might be interested in tapping that resource. Since Mcloud did nothing to get it, and doesn't have any idea how to value it, Mcloud should not have control over it.
Since Mcloud does have control over the water, it is imperative that the town seize control of the leadership of the Mcloud Water District at the ballot box and rein in the ”jobs-at-any-cost" boosters, so somebody with some cojones can cut a deal with Nestle, or come up with another plan to exploit the water in a savvy, truly beneficial way for the community. Giving away a resource for little or nothing, and promising to keep giving it away for A HUNDRED YEARS is never a good idea, because you have NO IDEA what that water will be worth in even five or ten years, much less a hundred.
:) Chas
MISINFORMED
So you have driven by McCloud and from your great observational skills you were able to determine, and then print, that we live in a “sinkhole of poverty”? Well in all fairness a portion of that statement is true. With the final closing of our lumber mill we are a impoverished town. While we do have some small businesses that cater to the tourists that come through to enjoy the “useless mountain beauty” we also take pride in our town and in our heritage. Sure you will find some homes not kept up to your obviously high standard and you can even find a rusty pickup or two. However, we “rural rubes” are far from the slovenly, lazy or dupes that your article would make us appear.It is a shame that your slander may be taken by some as fact....strange how being misinformed and then passing that along can cause harm to people. Your article serves to perpetuate the misinformation spewed by the McCloud Watershed Council. Talk about hidden agenda's! The lack of integrity found in some members of this group is shameful. Some of these people would fit into your term of “rubes” and could easily sport your bumper sticker on their vehicles. Did I mention that most of the members of this group are recent arrivals or only live in the town part-time?
I don't have a clue what happened to your friend but there are many Hispanics living in, being an active part of and enjoying this town. Your inuendo that it was his race that made him feel that the town was “nasty and brutish” was offensive. Maybe your friend and his attitude was the problem not the town or his race.
Why is Nestle coming into our town such a hot topic? Our water deal is much better than the one Mt. Shasta has...oh wait the town of Mt. Shasta didn't get a deal on their water and so get none of the monetary benefits. By the way, where were these water crusaders when the water bottling plants were approved in Weed, Mt. Shasta and Dunsmuir? Why not the big to-do over Dunsmuirs approval of their second bottling facility? Couldn't be that hidden agenda could it?
Do your homework, study the contract yourself and maybe you will find that it is you who have been the dupe, maybe that bumper sticker should be on your vehicle as well.
Re: MISINFORMED
[quote="3rd Generation“] Why is Nestle coming into our town such a hot topic? Our water deal is much better than the one Mt. Shasta has...oh wait the town of Mt. Shasta didn't get a deal on their water and so get none of the monetary benefits. By the way, where were these water crusaders when the water bottling plants were approved in Weed, Mt. Shasta and Dunsmuir? Why not the big to-do over Dunsmuirs approval of their second bottling facility? Couldn't be that hidden agenda could it?Do your homework, study the contract yourself and maybe you will find that it is you who have been the dupe, maybe that bumper sticker should be on your vehicle as well.
[/quote]
Times change, and issues become hot buttons. Global warming's on everyone's mind, and there's nothing like the disparity between the street value of a half-billion gallons of water and the microscopic value of Nestle's handful of beads to give those excluded from the negotiations all the ammo they need to attack the results.
Pride in community, and I doubt not that Mcloud has it — is typically exploited to develop boosterist sentiment to support corporate exploitation. The reality of seeing your town run out of steam is very depressing. Mcloud probably shipped hundreds of millions of board feet of lumber, enough to build houses and McDonalds' from there to LA and more, but where's the mansions in Mcloud? That's the problem — just like the town of Hilt — got exploited by the timber barons and had nothing left when they pulled out. Now the water monopolists are going to be your friends.
If you could get advice from Hunter Thompson, he'd tell you to hire some damn fancy lawyers anytime a huge corporation comes calling with a ”take it or leave it" deal. Cut those lawyers in for a share of the increase between what's on the table now and what they can deliver. Nestle could better their offer a hundred-fold, and still make out like bandits. Of course, they wouldn't want anyone to know they'd been jacked up to a higher price — that would ruin negotiations elsewhere. No worries — settle with a confidentiality agreement. While you're at it, why don't you get those job guarantees nailed down, a free-hot-chocolate deal for the kids at the school, and maybe a foreign exchange program, so some Mcloud kids can go snowboarding in the Alps? It's all there if you just NEGOTIATE. You have the power. How do I know? Because they came to you. The one who comes to the battle is weak, says Sun Tzu. But the Swiss convinced Mcloud that it was weak. That false perception needs to change. Then people in Mcloud can also be rich, like the Swiss.
Once More into the Breach
Interesting that you should make the point that the late-arrivals in town have a valid voice in local government. A fact that is largely ignored in all of this tumult is that the MCSD (McCloud Community Service District) has had ongoing, active negotiations with at least five water bottlers since 1993. Two of these companies built in our neighboring communities because the deals that they offered were deemed inadequate by the MCSD. Contrary to popular fiction, there have been numerous public meetings addressing the issue. Considering that the MCSD has elections every two years, a reasonable person would conclude that there has been ample time to allow the electorate to impress on their representatives what their priorities should be, and to vote out non-responsive delegates. Of course, part of the problem may be that a large segment of the people in opposition to this project are not actually McCloud residents, and thus not eligible to vote. The fact is, the governance of a community like this is a thankless, largely ignored job until after something is done that offends some vocal minority. Then the hue and cry goes up about inadequate input into an issue that has long been in the public forum. I have been to innumerable (in fact, most) MCSD meetings where there were fewer than ten people in attendance.As I stated before, for most of the opposition, the issue has nothing to do with the stated platform. The deal, which undeniably could have been more favorable to the community, was the best one offered in over ten years of negotiations with a variety of companies. The environmental impacts (in all senses of the definition), are far less than what the succession of lumber companies over the last hundred years have imposed on the community. The consummation of the contract has always been dependant on passing CEQA, and while that may seem backwards to some, it would be naïve in the extreme for a manufacturer to invest millions of dollars into getting CEQA approval without knowing what they were going to pay for the resource at the successful conclusion of the process. The problem, for these people, is that the deal was made with Nestle. Nestle’s history is repugnant to this group, and they are appalled at the association. Interestingly, many of these people are driving Japanese or German vehicles and wearing clothes made in China. Examining any of these countries’s history over the period of time that your castigation of the Swiss covers leads me to believe that perhaps these feelings are not being distributed evenly.
Totally amazed...
I have laughed and yelled out loud at many of the comments I have read here. One of the best?“It is imperative that the town seize control of the leadership of the Mcloud Water District at the ballot box and rein in the ”jobs-at-any-cost“ boosters, so somebody with some cojones can cut a deal with Nestle, or come up with another plan to exploit the water in a savvy, truly beneficial way for the community. Giving away a resource for little or nothing, and promising to keep giving it away for A HUNDRED YEARS is never a good idea, because you have NO IDEA what that water will be worth in even five or ten years, much less a hundred.”
Seems you not only did NOT take economics, but you missed US Govt as well. We (and by “we” I mean the TRUE RESIDENTS OF MCCLOUD as defined by someone who actually lives full time in town and who is allowed to vote in “town issues”) ... We vote in representatives every 2 years. As mentioned by McCloudy, there have been studies, negotiations and discussions at OPEN TO THE PUBLIC meetings since 1993 (That equates to the past 12 years) regarding the selling/bottling of McCloud water. We have had more than enough opportunities to vote in those we feel decide things in the “best interest of McCloud”.
You sound like an intelligent person. Do you know what happens when someone with “cajones” demands too much for a readily available and most often free resource? Doesn't take a genius to figure this one out... All you have to really do is look at neighboring communities. Mt Shasta demanded too much from Dannon and what did Dannon do? Bought some land with a spring on it and pipe water into their facility. Mt Shasta doesn't benefit finacially at all.
Do you realize that Nestle could have done exactly the same thing? They know our water is some of the best around. Instead of negotiating with any of the numerous private land owners(timber industries) that surround the the proposed facility (which by the way is what Crystal Geyser does in Weed, CA) they spoke with our service district board. They negotiated and reached a contract contingent on full CEQA compliance.
Their interest helped prompt updating the pipes that service our town, helped update our water storage facility. Their interest will potentially provide this town's governing body with funding that is not limited to just water. For every job Nestle may create, 1-3 others could also be created. More restaurants, more gas stations, more stores will be needed.
Do you understand that water is free? The water bottling industry is based on simple supply and demand. If you don't buy the water....
McCloud is exploiting the water... we are selling it for financial gain. If we pushed for too much money, Nestle would still purchase the old mill site, still build thier facility, still bring jobs to the community. However McCloud would not benefit finaicially as they would just do what other neighboring plants have done, bypass the local community water delivery system and pump from thier own spring.
I would like to add, that Nestle is the ONLY water bottler in the county that has voluntarily undertaken the task of completing a full CEQA/EIR. Wait... not voluntarily... the contract with MCSD demands it, is contingent upon it.
Dannon, and most recently, the new Mott Rd Plant, simply did a negative declaration. The simple truth is that those communities have absolutely no control over the water brought into the plant, make no money from the water... but nevertheless all the agencies involved felt that the plants would not harm the environment and each were given the go ahead.
I think McCloud should hold it's head high, we ARE MAKING MONEY on this deal, we DO MAINTAIN CONTROL of all water righs, all springs, all facilities up to the proposed plant, in addition we have control during proven drought situations. Can the other communities claim this?
I'm going to laugh... and cry... if this contract is turned over and the appeal is lost. Due to the stupidity, the greed and the hidden agendas of a few, many will lose. Yet Nestle will still build their plant...
Re: Totally amazed...
[quote="McC Resident“] Do you know what happens when someone with ”cajones“ demands too much for a readily available and most often free resource? Doesn't take a genius to figure this one out... All you have to really do is look at neighboring communities. Mt Shasta demanded too much from Dannon and what did Dannon do? Bought some land with a spring on it and pipe water into their facility. Mt Shasta doesn't benefit finacially at all.[/quote]For a project of the size Nestle is pursuing, a pre-project CEQA would still be required, regardless of the private siting.
Instead of negotiating with any of the numerous private land owners(timber industries) that surround the the proposed facility (which by the way is what Crystal Geyser does in Weed, CA) they spoke with our service district board. They negotiated and reached a contract contingent on full CEQA compliance.
Wrong. They didn't negotiate with private landowners because timber companies have their own lawyers, and would not have cut such a sweetheart deal. They negotiated a backroom contract with municipal authorities who apparently did not hire legal counsel, and presented a ”take it or leave it“ agreement that subordinates the CEQA compliance to its own plans to proceed prior to approval. To say that the effectiveness of the contract is conditioned on CEQA compliance is simply false. Performance of whatever CEQA compliance is forced upon Nestle is all that they are committed to, and their current litigious approach to Judge Kosel's ruling shows that they have no intention to perform one act of compliance more than they are forced to via litigation. Currently the project is going forward, and it has no CEQA approval. Nestle speak with forked tongue, which is why you hire San Francisco lawyers with deep Republican donation connections, and run up the cost of litigation with meritless appeals. If Nestle were ready to do the CEQA process, all they need to do is acquiesce in the Superior Court judgment and get busy with the compliance. But nooooooo. They want it all their way.
The reason to vote out your elected representatives is because they've hidden their mistakes and now seek to justify them. They have allied themselves with the adverse party in a contractual dispute, and are hellbound that they will accomplish Nestle's purposes in Northern California. This doesn't make them bad people, not at all, just victims of a conflict of interest that probably snuch up on them, and now they don't even realize they've switched sides and no longer represent their community. That's how conflicts of interest work, and why SUNSHINE is the remedy. Let all public business be conducted in the open, and this back-assward way of doing things will come to an end.
Like my Aunt Pearl, the schoolteacher always said to me: ”If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you ever find the time to do it over?“
On a more personal level, I admire the people of Mcloud for having this dispute. Many towns would just roll over and let Nestle take their water. You folks are fighting, and as a result, Americans may get to exploit American water, and not just as sellers of raw material, the lowest level of the colonialist food chain (after slavery).
Thanks for the grudging compliments. I too enjoy scrapping with you folks, although I think your dire prediction that Nestle will walk from this deal if it loses the appeal is not the only option. A face-saving deal could still be put together, baised on the concept that ”We wanted to give you all our water for nothing, but that mean old Judge wouldn't let us!"
You may think Judge Kosel is just being legalistic. Not at all. He is minding the people's business just the way he swore to, making sure that CEQA is enforced in a way that gives it meaning — DON'T SIGN 100-YEAR AGREEMENTS ABOUT HALF A BILLION GALLONS OF WATER UNTIL YOUR CEQA COMPLIANCE IS COMPLETE! Now make Nestle write that on a blackboard half a billion times, once for every gallon they sought to steal, and see when they get done.
:) Chas
Brains Anyone?
I think it is unfortunate that all of the energy being unleashed here and in other forums regarding this matter is going to such a waste. Consider for a moment what could happen if all of the individuals with a stake in this issue worked together to develop a plan which could benefit all involved and more. Instead of inviting a Large Foreign Corporation to the table to partake of this (our the “locals” limited natural resource), get the locals and all other interested “local” parties with capital and resources to create their OWN water bottling company, promote the battle for local control of water resources with “foreign interest” Nestle, and gain a higher percentage of the benefits from the resource (income from resource, future control over the resource.) Come on people, stop bickering and WORK TOGETHER!Re: Brains Anyone?
[quote="Mountain Man M“]...if all of the individuals with a stake in this issue worked together to develop a plan which could benefit all involved and more. Instead of inviting a Large Foreign Corporation to the table to partake of this (our the ”locals“ limited natural resource), get the locals and all other interested ”local" parties with capital and resources to create their OWN water bottling company...[/quote]This seems like an excellent avenue of investigation. Anyone call Paul Newman to request an initial investment. Newman's Own Water! I can see it now. The PR benefits alone are worth more than the H20!
:) Chas
Just an update
You are the one who is wrong. Nestle did not have to negotiate with private landowners because they went through the process in another manner, they became the land owners themselves. Tuesday it was announced that Nestle purchased the land that the mill once sat upon.Nestle does not need the contract to get the water that they want, they never did. That contract would have ensured that at least we, the people of McCloud, would have gotten something for the water. All Nestle needs to do is go through the CEQA and take the water.
On another note Nestle had begun doing things for and donating money and items to the residents of McCloud. We were getting some benefits of having a large company in our town even before the purchase was complete.
I do agree with the “Mountain Man M” on one thing, the bickering and fighting needs to stop. It helps no one and has only caused a great deal of harm.
Re: Just an update
[quote="3rd generation“]All Nestle needs to do is go through the CEQA and take the water.[/quote]If it's all they need to do, why are they still appealing?
On another note Nestle had begun doing things for and donating money and items to the residents of McCloud. We were getting some benefits of having a large company in our town even before the purchase was complete.
Presumably, the job benefits will still come to the town, which has been so loyal to the Nestles water lords. Since there were no guarantees of wages, benefits or any such, you will be treated no worse than you would have.
I do agree with the ”Mountain Man M" on one thing, the bickering and fighting needs to stop. It helps no one and has only caused a great deal of harm.
Yeah, tell that to Bill O'Reilly and Fox News. Bickering's awful.
:) Chas
Water on the brain
Folks-I settled here in McCloud in 1988. To some in our community, that makes me a newcomer, not entitled to participate in the process of determining the future of our town. I find this attitude offensive and un-American. Everone in the American west is a newcomer.
I also find some of the authors comments about our communty offensive and obvioulsy un-informed about our communty.
He is right on the mark, however, about the Swiss multi-national that has come to town to plays us for the fools and make billions of dollars/francs off of a resource that is, technically, owned by all of the people of California (see California Water Law 101) and is probably not the Mccloud community Service Districts water to sell. This thorny leagal issue may well surface and surprise all of us in McCloud who like to think of this water as “ours”.
One interesting piece of recent hisotry has been all but overlooked in all of this controverey. The Service District Doard of Directors is taking all of the heat at the moment. Some of which is deserved and some, perhaps, is mis-directed. Yes, they are the elected officials who signed the deal, but, at the risk of being offinsive, they are not the brightest bulbs on the block in McCloud. Though full of good intentions, they were all but putty in the hands of our former Service district General Manager, who was also the undisputed architect of the deal between Nestle and MCSD. A funny thing happend. The same week that the Superiour Court ruled against Nestle and the Service District, this same General Manager submitted his letter of resignation and within 60 days, had left town. Very odd timing and behaviour for a guy who used to rave about what a great place McCloud was to live a raise a family. I think he used to call it “Gods country”. Maybe he had some second thoughts about being in the hot seat in such a controversey. Did somebody say something about Swiss bank accounts?
Reagrding the assertions by the pro Nestle faction that the opposition is all out of towners with a “hidden agenda”, I have some obsrevations and questions. First, I note with interest the recent publication of a door to door survey that show 77% opposition to the Nestle contract. That was a door to door survey and apparently many of the homes were vacant, and not polled, presumably these homes are owned by all of those second home owners from down south. This would imply that the survey represents mostly those at home, or those who would mostly qualify as “residents”. It also appears to me that the most vocal boosters of the project may well be the ones with the “hidden agenda”. they are the ones most likely to get the decent jobs that will pay a living wage. The rest of us “rubes” will end up with the $8 - $10 an hour jobs that are the industry standard. If the opponents have a “hidden agenda”, what is it? I just don't see what sort of hidden agenda could unite a buch of folks with their own lives to take on a giant Swiss corporation.
Well one thing is for certain. the political apathy that used to be so prevelant in this town is gone. This issue has truly polarized our community. We can thank Nestle (and our former General Manager) for that.
TRACK DOWN THAT SELLOUT AND SUE HIS BUTT
The former City Manager of Mcloud who left the town two months after Judge Kosel upended his secret deal should be located and sued for disloyalty to the town. Subpoena power should be used to pry open his secrets, which will probably reveal that he was on the Swiss payroll all along. Rudy Giuliani said, “Bribe only those who will stay bribed.” The Swiss do it right. Their man did his job, and now he's GONE. Absent men tell no tales.SLAPP in the face
Todays local paper has a front page story about Nestle slapping their opponents with subpeonas that are apparently without merit. They are seeking all kinds of information about the local aopposition including personal financial information and names of supporters and donors. Maybe they forgot that we have a constitution and that it has a First Amendment. Oh yeah, they are from Switzerland, why would they care about our first Amendment? It looks to me like the Swiss giant is showing their true colors. They operate with impugnity all over the world using scare tactics, intimdation, corrupt politics and probably physical violence when it suits their needs. These bastardds came to McCloud and treat us like a third world nation. they seem to have forgotten that America still has some vestiges of the democratic process left and that scare tactics and intimidation are not usually considered part of a “good neighbor policy”. Their propaganda is full of assurances that, should any problems arise from their activites, their “good neighbor policy” will take care of then. Oh, I am so relieved. With neighbors like that, who needs enemies.Brave Mc Cloud
Now bold people of McCloud, it's time to show your mettle. A small berg perched on the side of a huge Mountain with a massive water shed. Who wouldda thought that your little town would be the site of such a critical battle for the future of American natural resources - Nestle did! Yep, they've got the Francs and they can afford to hire the “right people” to sit there overlooking the frosty Alps and develop business strategies decades in advance. Business strategies that affect the rights of citizens of foreign countries to use their own resources. The actions now taken by Nestle, that Mclitigous refers to, were planned ahead of time “just in case”, so why be surprised as the serpent uncoils and shows its true proportions. Why should the serpent fear you? It has nothing to lose at this point. Now it's time to lash out and use that venom and get that prey before it gets away and all their energy has been wasted. Mc Cloud needs some serious antivenom on hand now. Now McCloud gets to show how proud and strong they are, this is a real American drama!Thanks A--holes!
I would like to thank Pete Kampa, the MCSD Board of Directors and that most vile of human sub-types-the corporate mercenary PR flunky- Dave Palais, for selling out our community to Nestle. I guess it would be one thing if we were all getting something out of the deal. All of us have a price. Lower our water rates, give us a kickback, a new car, gifts for our kids or even a numbered, anonymous swiss bank account and any of us are likely to roll over. But to come in here and give us doodley for what we all know is the best water on the planet is about as low a blow as they could have delivered. We all know that the the collective intelligence of the service district board is about that of....well... a board. But Palais and Kampa are both smart guys. The only logical conclusion one can come to to explain what they did to our town is that there is something in it for them. Palais is clearly a well paid corporate mercenary. No question there. He undoubtedly has some hefty bonuses coming to him when his masters in Europe finally get their pipes into our springs. Kampa on the other hand is a mysterous character. Where did he come from? Where did he go? Why did he work so hard to get our srings outfitted with new pipes? Why did he work so hard to get the contract approved without any public review? Does he have a nice new house? A new Car? A fat, impossible to trace bank account in Zurich? One has to wonder........Re: Brave Mc Cloud
Mklouder wrote:
Now bold people of McCloud, it's time to show your mettle. A small berg perched on the side of a huge Mountain with a massive water shed. Who wouldda thought that your little town would be the site of such a critical battle for the future of American natural resources - Nestle did! .... Now McCloud gets to show how proud and strong they are, this is a real American drama!
I second that emotion!
:) Chas
Re: Thanks A--holes!
Mcthanksalot wrote:
... Kampa on the other hand is a mysterous character. Where did he come from? Where did he go? Why did he work so hard to get our srings outfitted with new pipes? Why did he work so hard to get the contract approved without any public review? Does he have a nice new house? A new Car? A fat, impossible to trace bank account in Zurich? One has to wonder........
These are the kinds of questions for which answers can be sought in litigation, through discovery of Nestle's files, and subpoenas to Water District and Kampa for testimony and documents. Public Records Requests may also be useful. Where are Kampa's work emails for that time period? Those communications should be part of his employer's work records, thus public property and subject to citizen review under the current circumstances.
:) Chas
Pete Kampa
try Twain Harte Village CSD....Googlewater bounty hunters
It makes you wonder if there is a water source in the Twaine Harte area that Mr. Kampa and his handlers have set their sights on. If I am not mistaken, Twain harte is another small, unincorporated mountain town in the Sierras. It is close to the snowcappes Sierras and not too far from the burgeoning bottled water markets of urban California.If I were a resident of Twain Harte I might want to be aware of the fox guarding the henhouse of whatever water source that comminty relies on. Beware of the bounty hunters in search of the blue gold of the future.
twain harte next?
I went to the Twain Harte Village CSD website. It appears the the first thing Kampa did there was to change the policy of posting the meeting minutes on the website. Now you have to go down to the office and listen to the tapes. Sound familiar to all you McCloudites? How much do you want to bet that the next step will be to enact a policty to destroy those tape within, what was it six months? Still supposedly in compliace with the Brown Act, but effectivele eliminating a good paper/electronic trail. There seems to be a pattern here. Watch your backs Twaine Harte!Truly pathetic
It's easy to rant and rave about McCloud and the Nestle water deal as long as you don't have to support your rage with substantial facts. Speculating on peoples intelligence, motives of district managers and Nestle representatives does not make for a useful or honest debate. Also, calling another person a vile human sub-species can only be the result of someone (McThanksalot)who considers themself to be of the same sub species.Good for the Goose, Good for the Slander
McThanksalot's delusional, paranoid, James-Bond-like diatribe against Kampa and Palais got me to thinking...Could she/he and her/his allies against Nestle have their own financial reasons for opposing behind the guise of “in the public interest”?Take one vocally opposed female..isn't it conceivable that she is being paid by one of Nestle's competitors in the region? Might she have paid for her TWO houses (at least) in McCloud with money secretly deposited in some un-numbered, untraceable French bank account? And some of the local business owners who also oppose Nestle...Might they be afraid of losing their currently low-paid, non-benefit-receiving employees to a better employer? Might they be forced to improve their pay scales to approach a living wage in order to retain or find new employees? What a shame (or is it Sham?) And I don't buy the anti-corporation facade they hide behind...after all, they all drive cars made by and fueled by corporations...Oh wait, its not that its a corporation, its that its “multi-national” and not American. I guess they would prefer to have the non-existent American mill company that closed shop and moved those jobs to China rather than a “foreign” company (which, by the way, employs over 8,000 Americans in this country and over 1,000 in California) come to town and be among the highest paying and compensating employers in this part of California.
Be careful about what you “imply” McThanksalot...innnuendo and rumors can be planted both ways...
If you are so high and mighty and believe that your cause is right, just and in the public interest, then don't be afraid to confront Nestle based on truth and fact and stop hiding behind misinformation, slander and psycho-rumors...
pathetihic slander?
Whynenot- if you actually read my post, you can see that I did not call Palais a “vile human sub species”, as you infer. What I said was that corporate PR flunkies, as a group, are a vile human sub-type. It just so happens that Palais is a member of this profession. His choice, not mine.Mcyourwelcome- I think you might want to check your “facts” about pay scales and benefits. Yours sound like they came right out of the Nestle PR handbook. Regarding your speculation that Nestle's competitors are funding the opposition and that local businesses might be afraid of losing workforce to Nestle over better wages, all I can say is is that if you believe that, you probably also belive that the contract is a great deal for McCloud.
Hey! Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn? Cheap? Helluva deal. Better hurry because they're going fast.
Yes - your slander is Pathetic
Well McThanksalot, you continue to prove my point…all you keep doing is slamming the information Nestle provides “claiming” its all a lie…They are on the record Publicly for what they will be paying minimally (10$ per hour is quite a good starting wage and benefits for someone maybe with only a high-school diploma I would say but you probably will disagree). Nestle has a Human Resources Department with statistics about their employee numbers and payroll that they must file accurately in the States where they have employees…Public Information. If you don’t believe the numbers they quote, you could spend a few hours of your precious (maybe retired, but certainly not in need of a job) time calling the State employment offices in the States where Nestle is located and you would find in that investigation that the numbers Nestle quotes nationwide and in California is accurate. But no, why would you want to do that, because it would deter from your smear campaign claiming everything they say is a lie. They have facts but facts would go against you…so NO, of course you would not want to get any facts. A great example of how you like to claim the Public has not been allowed to be involved in the process but you won’t use the process when its not in your favor (by the way, were you in attendance at the 40+ public meetings over the last 9 years when the MCSD Board reported out on their attempts to bring a bottled water company to town as a customer and did you voice all your concerns then? Funny, I don’t see any of them in the minutes from those meetings!!!). Also of note, as you have already pointed out, Nestle relies on Public Relations, so it would not be to their benefit to ”lie” about their wages, benefits or employee numbers only to be proven wrong with factual, publicly-available data…so I conclude that their wage promise, benefits and employment estimates are valid. As for the contract, there we agree…there are some aspects of the contract I don’t like. I believe in Private Property rights…so I don’t like the fact that Nestle gave up their rights to drill a well on their property. I don’t like the fact that Nestle agreed to let the District meter their water use but most other customers remain un-metered and allowed to waste as much water as they please. I don’t like the fact that there is any termination opportunity…I would like the contract to be binding and perpetual on Nestle so that we could assure that a big employer and revenue source (30% of MCSD’s current budget) for MCSD would stay in town in perpetuity (unlike the Mill industry that radical environmentalists drove out of not only McCloud but of California in general because of the insane costs required to comply with the most stringent environmental rules in the country – hey wait a minute, Nestle has to comply with those same rules too…ironic, isn’t it!)). This way, in 99 years a potential Board of Directors made up of radical opponents to Nestle would not drive them away too because of ridiculous, greedy demands for “more money” (by the way, just so that we all can understand what your expectations are, how much money do you really think McCloud should be getting from this deal?). You seem to have some wild idea that McCloud is entitled to something for essentially nothing (supplying an existing service to a new, all be it large, customer at no additional cost to McCloud)…but there again, no surprise…you are probably also among those who expect MCSD to continue to provide all the services you want in town but then vote down all ballot measures that would allow them to financially maintain and provide those services…what, do you think the MCSD employees (field crew all the way up to the General Manager and Directors) are busting their asses because they enjoy receiving all the verbal abuse and crap you dish out for the “hearty sums” you pay them (MCSD Board members are paid $100/month…BEFORE taxes)…think again!. I expect some witty retort to all this …have at it, I look forward to continuing this debate with you!saying my piece to the previous writer
I dont think anyone could afford to live in McCloud anymore on a $10 an hour wage. That wage results in take home pay of around $1280 per month. With rents in town at about $800, that doesnt leave much left over. I think in the old days when the mill was running we had it much better than that.On the district meetings, I thought that they voted last year to only keep the minutes for a year. How could you have looked over the minutes from the past nine years to see what comments were made. That sounds like a ridiculous fabrication to me.
Your points on the contract are silly. Why shouldn't we get the best deal possible out of Nestle? Why shouldn't we make sure that they don't take advantage of us and hurt our long term water supply. I don't think they really did give up the right to drill wells and boreholes. Why do you say that? Also- while the Nestle payment to McCloud may amount to 30% of the current (is that this year, last year or the year before) budget,this percentage wil drop a lot over the next decade. How much larger is todays budget than the budget ten years ago? What will it be like in another decade? What will it be like in 50, or 100 years. It will be a paltry sum.You mention the radical environmentalists that supposedly ran the timber industry out of town. Last time I checked, the timber industry had pretty much closed up shop around here in the 70's after the last of the big trees were cut. It's not as if there are a lot of the kind of forests that we used to have around here left.
You seem mighty defensive about how poorly paid the MCSD board members are. I didn't think anyone who served on the board actually got paid. I think this is supposed to be a token payment, not an actual paycheck. I think the town would be better served by a board that didn't have members with such a chip on their shoulder about so many things. You should listen to the people who you are supposed to be representing. Relax for gosh sakes. You sound really angry. Maybe you need a vacation.
Re: Good for the Goose, Good for the Slander
[quote="McYourWelcome“]McThanksalot's delusional, paranoid, James-Bond-like diatribe against Kampa and Palais got me to thinking...Could she/he and her/his allies against Nestle have their own financial reasons for opposing behind the guise of ”in the public interest"?[/quote]He has evidence that he has gathered from study. You are on a diatribe with your speculations about Nestle competitors. That's silly. Nestle and it's competitors have divvied up the territory and fixed prices in worldwide markets. They are collaborating, not competing.
Thank you,
Chas :)
Come on Chas - be real!
Come on Chas - you think these companies are in co-hoots? They are extreme competitors. Your comment is the silly one and shows a lack of understanding of the competetive market environment! They don't fix prices...they are in a pricing war with each other! And show me the “evidence” from a “study” that McThanksalot has that Kampa or Board members were receiving payoffs? You can't because they weren't. This is just ridiculous speculation meant to hurt some honest people who have tried to do what is best for this community. Come on - show me the proof lawyer...again, you can't because you don't have any - but if you look in the super markets every weekend, you'll see my proof - pricing wars on cases of bottled water. Now, to Granny's comments: I am not angry - just annoyed at the campaign of scare tactics and lies being waged against this clean industry that MCSD approached to bring to town after unsuccessfully trying to get other companies to come to town. And absolutely yes, I do need a vacation (most of us who work hard for a living do!) A few comments however regarding your entry. You may not think a person can live on $10/hour in McCloud but that entry-level wage plus the benefits provided by Nestle (standard benefits provided by most “multi-national corporations” and American corporations all over including medical and dental, retirement - 401(k) - and even profit sharing for all employees) is considerably better than anyone else provides in town or in the area. Plus it’s significantly above the Federal and State minimum wage. If you don't think that anyone in McCloud can live on $10/hour plus the benefits that Nestle will provide, then how can you not be complaining about other employers in the area who are paying minimum wage with no benefits for seasonal-only jobs (you may reply because Nestle is a big corporation and will be making big profits and therefore should be paying more but unfortunately, any Freshman in college who has taken a business economics course can tell you that wages and salaries paid small or large business are not based on profits but are based more largely on regional and geographically-specific economic parameters - show me any city in America where the employers base their wages on their individual profits and I'll reconsider my answer...). Lastly on this topic, ask around of some of the people currently being paid for their seasonal, minimum wage jobs with no benefits and I'll bet they will be jumping at the opportunity to be paid at least $10/hour (or more with experience) for a guaranteed full-time-for-the-year job with benefits...as for the written minutes for their prior meetings - MCSD keeps those - it was the tape-recordings of their meetings that they keep only for one-year..the minutes are still available at the MCSD office...My points on the contract were meant to be “silly” to make a statement...everyone has their opinions about the contract (pro and against)...but also to prove a point that Nestle gave things up in their negotiations and MCSD conceded on some things as well. The bottom line is that MCSD successfully negotiated a contract that results in the community receiving a revenue stream for no investment on their part (something that none of the other communities in the County with Bottled Water industries - and there are three others in existence - were able to do)...and the revenue will increase because sometime during those 50+50 years, rates will inevitably go up (with or without Nestle - just slower with Nestle) and so will he amount that Nestle will be paying (since they pay 200 times whatever an individual household pays) plus all of the other payments that can be used in the communities General Fund. Long term water supply - CEQA will evaluate that and will place restrictions on Nestle during drought (as required by the Contract as well) - let's wait to see what CEQA imposes..Right to Drill - drilling a well on your own property in California is a right - one simply needs to get an over-the-counter permit from their county - no public process involved...Nestle gave up that right because the contract requires them to ask MCSD for a well if they wish one and even then, Nestle won't own it - MCSD will and MCSD will meter it and restrict their use to the 1,600 contract (while not specifically spelled out in the Contract, the EIR, which will be enforceable, will limit Nestle to a combined total of 1600 acre-feet of groundwater and spring water)....private property right given up!!how do you know ?
How do you know that the EIR will will impose those limits on Nestle? How do you know it will be enforcable? Who will enforce it? What will the penalties for violation be? There are many instances of penalties imposed for violation of enforcable safetey and environmetal regulations being so minor that it is simply considered a cost of doing business. In such cases it is usually the locals that are left holding the empty bag.Again you are misinformed
I copied a paragraph that you said Chas, that Nestle HAS not been negotiating with other landowners. obviously you did not do your research again before you commented.Nestle has negotiated with a landowner for truck traffic so that the traffic would not go through our town.
“Chas's paragraph”
“Wrong. They didn't negotiate with private landowners because timber companies have their own lawyers, and would not have cut such a sweetheart deal.”
And I find it offensive the way some of you talk about Pete Kampa, and Dave Palais.Pete did a good job for our town and so has our service district board. It sounds like a lot of slander to me. I don't blame Pete for moving and getting a better job with the way some of these people treated him and his family.And he didn't run away. Get real.
Oh Yea Chas you spell McCloud wrong.
"CEQA" and you shall find
Great questions Granny – let me share with you (and others) what I have learned about this project and the CEQA process in my efforts to become informed with facts and not rumors! We can expect that there will be (or should be) some, if not many, mitigations (actions taken or changes made to the project to reduce significant impacts to less than significant) placed on Nestle. For a project this size, it is virtually impossible for there not to be impacts from Nestle’s original project description that are considered “significant” by the County’s consultant. As such, Nestle will be required to “mitigate” those impacts to a level that is considered “less than significant”. These mitigations are enforceable through California Assembly Bill AB 3180 which in part states that mitigation measures adopted through the California Environmental Quality Act (“CEQA”) process must be implemented in a timely manner and in accordance with the terms of project approval. Under AB 3180, local agencies are required to adopt a monitoring or reporting program “designed to ensure compliance during project implementation.” So there will be assignments to different agencies (MCSD, County, Water Quality Control Board, CALTRANS, etc) for responsibility to enforce the mitigation measures (for example, CALTRANS will probably enforce any mitigations related to truck traffic on Hwy 89). Enforcement of mitigations (if Nestle violates mitigations) may be in the form of fines, threat of litigation or litigation itself. Given other entries above that emphasize Nestle’s reliance on good PR (as exemplified by the fact that the hired - as described by the McCloud Watershed Council in their Sept 2005 Newsletter - a “full-time, top-notch public relations agent, Dave Palais”), I doubt that they would settle for knowingly violating mitigation requirements as simply being a “cost of doing business”…if they are going to grow as a company in other places in the country, they can’t have the anchor hanging around their neck when they go into new communities that they knowingly and purposefully violated environmental requirements in McCloud.Thank you Mr. McNestle
Well, it certainly appears that you have done your homework. It is almost as if you know what is in the EIR already. Like you have “inside” information. How could that be?You will have to forgive my mistrust of your favorite corporation. They are already struggling under the weight of numerous other PR “anchors” from theri past history. If they viloated World Health Organization guidelines designed to prevent infant moratlity, is just is not hard to imagine that they might “knowingly and purposefully” viloate environmental requirements in McCloud.
Re:
[quote="McYourWelcome“]Given other entries above that emphasize Nestle’s reliance on good PR (as exemplified by the fact that the hired - as described by the McCloud Watershed Council in their Sept 2005 Newsletter - a “full-time, top-notch public relations agent, Dave Palais”), I doubt that they would settle for knowingly violating mitigation requirements as simply being a “cost of doing business”…[/quote]Mr. Palais' annual salary and expenses probably substantially exceed the total wages that will be paid annually to the poor McCloud-residents who are expected to try and make it on $10/hour. That kind of arithmetic is the sort that Jack Abramoff did very well — fleecing Native American tribes of $66 Million, buying Republican congressmen with chump change. McCloud is doing no different — giving away Billions in water to which they barely have any legitimate claim, and selling the national interest down the tubes for a pittance. IF we had a real government, instead of showering Iraqi criminals like Achmed Chalabi and former puppet Allawi with Billions in American dollars, and protecting those criminals inside a ring of steel called the Green Zone, our nation would turn to a place like McCloud and construct a Water Project in the National Interest.
Instead, we have a government obsessed with looting our own treasury, while decent places like McCloud, which clearly deserve respect and need GOVERNMENT MONEY to save their communities from disappearing, go begging to a Foreign Company. What the hell ever happned to American PRIDE?
if they are going to grow as a company in other places in the country, they can’t have the anchor hanging around their neck when they go into new communities that they knowingly and purposefully violated environmental requirements in McCloud.
Oh ho ho ho ho, that is so funny! Nestle, the 800-Billion Pound Gorilla, that controls Republican lawyers like gangs of conscienceless henchmen, is going to become a good corporate citizen because they can't deal with ”bad press.“ The ONLY bad press they've gotten is from the Ashland Free Press. Nestle can and will buy all the silence and complicity they need.
As Balthasar Gracian, the medieval Jesuit philosopher said, ”Never depend on past actions to secure future assistance.“ In other words, get a lock on their family jewels, then you'll have a chance.
BTW, Granny, I agree that our poster here ”knows way too much." He is McNestle, indeed.
:) Chas
Its the science stupid
As a newcomer (25 years) and business owner (paying an average of 18/hr plus benifits to employees)who is opposed to the Nestle contract & project I only have one thing to add to this conversation. The science that backs up this giveaway stinks. The most recent comprehensive studies of our aquifer are 20 years old. There has been NO baseline testing of historic water flows in the creeks and streams in the McCloud area, downstream from the proposed project...and Nestle, totally unconcerned by the PR implications, is fighting at least three other US communities where surface water flows and private wells have been seriously depleted by thier draws. If the EIR mitigation truly addresses these issues and postpones the plant groundbreaking to do the science, then we will all be well served. If the county sups and the EIR process rubber stamp this project on the word of Nestle biostitutes, then we and our kids will pay the price for the next 100 years.Questions
Fist of all (Newcomer)this question is for you.I'd like to know what your business is that you can afford to pay $18 dollars an hour and do need any more employee's?????And this one is for you Chas. Where do you get your info? Do you live here in McCloud and do you go to our MCSD meetings??? Have you read the contract?
Have you sat down and talk with Mr.Palais? Have you talked to any of our MCSD board? You seem pretty inteligent and you seem to know what is best for our town. There are residents here who are 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation mcCloudites and a good majority of these people are for a corporation. They grew up and lived corporation formerly known as mother McCloud. McCloud was built by corporation. Corporations are the only business's anymore who can afford benefits and insurance these days. It is real hard for these mom and pop business's to even pay workmans comp.
read the paper
McCloudian - Your comment to Chas was great and well put. Everyone in this town should educate themselves and think for themselves. Personaly, I have done all of the things you suggested and more to try to understand this issue. I started out optimistic about the Nestle deal, but the more I learn, the more opposed I get.We are often looking for new employees and we advertize in the MS Herald. If you are hardworking, very reliable, lterate and have a valid CA drivers licence then read the paper and bring in an application. If you fit the description above, you would be a welcome part of our staff. We are a locally owned Mom and Pop and a corporation. We get few qualified applicants from McCloud and when we find them we try to hire them. We offer Workers Comp, health bens and a FLEX plan for our staff.
When the tough business desicions need to get made, multinational megacorps like Nestle are only concerned about increasing thier profits to serve shareholders in London, New York and Singapore. In the case of Nestle, it's a fact - proven by the number of current lawsuits and formal complaints against them for violating the law in small communities throughout the country. This isn't about a “mistake” that happened 25 years ago.
Mother McCloud may have been great for us, as my mom and grandparents experienced her, but Champion International literally cut and ran, leaving the people of McCloud with nothing to show for years of hard work. Ask the oldtime fallers who lived through the difference.
Why would we want to make our kids repeat the experience? In the current global economy, the only way to create security is to build a strong, diverse, locally-owned business community that is managed by people who live here and think locally. Whether it is water bottling or timber management, we should do whatever we can to put people who care about McCloud in charge of our resources. Ask Dave Palais where he plans to live in five years, ten years, twenty years. Where is he living right now?
I am a fifth generation rural Northern Californian. As such, I am totally familiar with issues of water, jobs and resource extraction. But the most pressing issue facing every rural community in this nation is maintaining local control and maintaining a true sense of community in this changing world. The Nestle project is stealing both these things from our town right now...as we chat on the computer.
Maybe do more than just read the paper
Chas - if you have enough time to be reading medieval Jesuit philosophy,then maybe you would take the time to read the Nestle-McCloud contract and, as McCloud Resident pointed out, you would have seen the CEQA language.As for me being “McNestle”, it never ceases to amaze me how you and the opponents to the project always find some paranoid reason to claim that an informed citizen who supports this project is “in Nestle's pocket”. If I am, then its not so silly to think the opponents are in the pockets of the competitors to Nestle...or maybe I have a relative who works as a consultant in southern CA where EIRs are common and they have worked on numerous EIRs. Maybe I asked her to explain the EIR process to me and get her opinions about how we might expect the EIR process to unfold...or maybe I spent time disucssing it with our County Planning Department. Why is it so difficult for you to accept that I (and others)have spent time getting educated on the process rather than spending my time spreading fear and lies about “what might be”. But of course, because I support the project, you necessarily assume I am in the corporations pocket -which page in your radical protestor's handbook is that on Chas.?
Newcomer: I agree with with McCloudian -if you are routinely paying your employees $18/hour plus benefits,congratulation! But I find it ironic that you even have to advertise in the paper for jobs...your should have people knocking down the doors to your business if that were true just fromword of mouth (and there are a lot of big mouths in McCloud!!!). I am sure now that you have stated your typical wage, you will have lots of prospective employees...by the way - just how many do you employ at that wage? 10? 20? 30? 60 to 240?
I do whole-heartedly agree with you however about the need for diversified employment in McCloud...I simply just don't see how the Nestle project prohibits that? You will say because they have bought the biggest piece of property in town thereby limiting that diversity. If that is so, then maybe you had an idea for diversifiying that property if you had been able to buy it? If that is the case - horray for you - but to me, that seems like exactly the potential “financial gain” that Nestle is trying to determine as being the possible motivation behind the lawsuit against them...
3rd generation brutes
Well, for a small town we sure have stirred up a hornets nest havn't we. I dont have much to add to this discussion. Its pretty much all been said. Except that Chas's hispanic friend probably did experience some “nasty and brutish” times here back in the day. There is still a bit of incipient racism present here in McCloud. I have experienced it myself. In recent times I have even heard the husband of a prominent and outspoken pro-Nestle MCSD board member use the derogatory term “ragheads” to refer to Muslims. Brutish is too polite a term to describe this sort of racist language. To give the benefit of the doubt, perhaps it is just ignorance, not racism. Which begs the question of how are people like this qualified to negotiate a deal like the Nestle contract?Re: Maybe do more than just read the paper
[quote="McYourWelcome“]Chas - if you have enough time to be reading medieval Jesuit philosophy,then maybe you would take the time to read the Nestle-McCloud contract and, as McCloud Resident pointed out, you would have seen the CEQA language.[/quote]Everyone has time to read Jesuit medieval philosophy, but they'd rather watch the Super Bowl. My Dad introduced me to this philosopher when I was young. Philosophy is ageless because the problems of mankind repeat themselves. The truth of Gracian's statement is what's important — we cannot trust corporations or people to treat us fairly based on faith or our past kind treatment of them. We must secure what we want by negotiation, agreement, and enforcement. I haven't read the contract, just Judge Kosel's ruling finding it unlawful. You don't realize, because you haven't practiced law as I have in California for nineteen years, that invalidating contracts is never done lightly, and Judge Kosel isn't a firebrand liberal eco-activist judge, if there is such a thing anywhere. The contract is a bad, sneaky trick. My rule is NEVER DEAL WITH PEOPLE WHO TRY TO CHEAT YOU. The Swiss have tried, and are trying, to cheat you. Of course you don't want to admit it, like Bush won't admit he's been unlawfully spying. Just bull it on through.
Additionally, I have been to Vevey, Switzerland, where Nestle is based, and I assure you there is no water for sale there, notwithstanding the presence of the vast Alpine snowfields. Can you imagine if WalMart wanted to bottle the waters of Lake Geneva? Haha!
As for me being ”McNestle“, it never ceases to amaze me how you and the opponents to the project always find some paranoid reason to claim that an informed citizen who supports this project is ”in Nestle's pocket“. If I am, then its not so silly to think the opponents are in the pockets of the competitors to Nestle...But of course, because I support the project, you necessarily assume I am in the corporations pocket -which page in your radical protestor's handbook is that on Chas.?
Good thing you don't get bogged down in mud-slinging.
I do whole-heartedly agree with you however about the need for diversified employment in McCloud...I simply just don't see how the Nestle project prohibits that? You will say because they have bought the biggest piece of property in town thereby limiting that diversity. If that is so, then maybe you had an idea for diversifiying that property if you had been able to buy it? If that is the case - horray for you - but to me, that seems like exactly the potential ”financial gain“ that Nestle is trying to determine as being the possible motivation behind the lawsuit against them...
It's not financial gain the opponents find offensive — IT'S THE GARGANTUAN, EXPLOITIVE, LONG TERM, ECO-SCREWING FOR A MEASLY STRING OF BEADS!
Speaking of a string of beads, listen to this old tune by T-Bone Burnett. It's called ”Humans From Earth,“ and was on the soundtrack for ”Until The End of the World," an avant garde movie by Wim Wenders that is a little diffuse. Great soundtrack, though.
If you need an MP3 player for your machine, get it at p2pmovies.net.
:) Chas
» Click here to download 16_-_Humans_From_Earth.mp3.
shot down twice
It appears that Nestle has just lost their second issue in Siskiyou County courts, this time before a different Judge. Two Judges, two isuues, two rulings against Nestle. Not a very convincing argument that they are on the right side of the law. In this case they tried to subpeona a bunch of information that they had no right to from some of the opponents. They probably thought that these folks were just a bunch of ignorant rubes (some people do have this impression of McCloudites) and would just roll over and comply with their illegal subpeonas. According to the Mt Shasta Herald, the Judge threw out every single thinng that Nestle was asking for. Maybe Nestle will start to get it that their usual way of doing business- graft, intimidation, harrassment and bullying are not welcome here.Re: shot down twice
candyman wrote:
It appears that Nestle has just lost their second issue in Siskiyou County courts, this time before a different Judge. Two Judges, two isuues, two rulings against Nestle. Not a very convincing argument that they are on the right side of the law. In this case they tried to subpeona a bunch of information that they had no right to from some of the opponents.
Fantastic! I'll look for a copy of the ruling.
According to the Mt Shasta Herald, the Judge threw out every single thinng that Nestle was asking for. Maybe Nestle will start to get it that their usual way of doing business- graft, intimidation, harrassment and bullying are not welcome here.
A united front is the last thing they are expecting.
:) Chas
I buy that stuff too.
I don't know what we can really do about this,I still buy bottled water,I like the crystal geyser stuff because it's from Mt.Shasta.I don,t like tap water any more because it has gotten worse over the years,and why is that? I grew up in L.A. drinking tap water inthe 50s 60s 70s and 80s,and then in the late eighties early ninties it got worse more cmemical tasting,though the water here in Ashland is ok for tap it still gives me heartburn.Did we allow our tap water to become lower quality in this country? I think I remember reading some articles about Reagen and other later presidents signing bills to lower our water quality,if this is true then we have all been duped again inti buying something that used to come out of our tap.And what are the long term affects on pulling all this water out of under ground springs,does anyone really know?How is mono lake doing?we notice.
Historically, McCloud area residents (new and old) have learned to respond to community chaos & dissention through trusted venues, quietly, secretly, or not at all. However we respond. We notice. When given the appropriate opportunity. We will act.Initially, the MCSD Board and Nestle Waters attempted to position themselves as a “trusted” resource, out for the best interest of the towns people. Time allowed the mcsd board and Palais (of Nestle Waters) plenty of rope and they took the “trusted” rope and gave themselves a public hanging. Even those few who really wanted to believe in miracles could see that the contract was a very one-sided deal.
Meanwhile, don't underestimate the power of the people.
They somehow noticed that the board phones Mr. Kampa regulary to keep the nestle project and district in-check.
They somehow noticed that Mr. Palais phones certain newcomers after district meetings at home to try to “win” them to the Nestle side.
They somehow heard that Palais gives away gifts or tickets to events, for the few that are “leaders” in the community (that choose to support the contract).
They somehow heard that Palais spends time at board members homes and has dinner with local business & town people to help the Swiss agenda.
They somehow guessed that Palais might be on Nestle payroll when he goes to use our non-profit Resource Center Staff to keep track of him or his appointments each Friday.
Some worry that MCRC staff is paid by state grant funding sources for public benefit. They notice they are answering calls on Palais' behalf and tracking him down for his appointments. They worry he might be putting our much needed Resource Center in jeopardy for his company's gain.
Some feel that NWNA only gave a small contribution to those agencies that support the Nestle contract.
Many notice that Palais has only a small number of people speaking in favor of the contract. Same people saying the same thing. Over and over. Yet, NWNA has hired one of the largest Public Relations firms to work on Palais' image in the little ole' town of McCloud.
Few may have noticed that your McCloudArrowhead site was purchased TWO DAYS BEFORE your contract with McCloud was ever signed...
It's amazing what some people notice.